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Since Priest's don't have the authority to forgive Sin?

And only God does should the following Scriptures be removed from the Bible so it can be updated .......... I. Jesus Christ Granted the Apostles His Authority to Forgive Sins John 20:21 - before He grants them the authority to forgive sins, Jesus says to the apostles, "as the Father sent me, so I send you." As Christ was sent by the Father to forgive sins, so Christ sends the apostles and their successors forgive sins. John 20:22 - the Lord "breathes" on the apostles, and then gives them the power to forgive and retain sins. The only other moment in Scripture where God breathes on man is in Gen. 2:7, when the Lord "breathes" divine life into man. When this happens, a significant transformation takes place. John 20:23 - Jesus says, "If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven. If you retain the sins of any, they are retained." In order for the apostles to exercise this gift of forgiving sins, the penitents must orally confess their sins to them because the apostles are not mind readers. The text makes this very clear. Matt. 9:8 - this verse shows that God has given the authority to forgive sins to "men." Hence, those Protestants who acknowledge that the apostles had the authority to forgive sins (which this verse demonstrates) must prove that this gift ended with the apostles. Otherwise, the apostles' successors still possess this gift. Where in Scripture is the gift of authority to forgive sins taken away from the apostles or their successors? Matt. 9:6; Mark 2:10 - Christ forgave sins as a man (not God) to convince us that the "Son of man" has authority to forgive sins on earth. Luke 5:24 - Luke also points out that Jesus' authority to forgive sins is as a man, not God. The Gospel writers record this to convince us that God has given this authority to men. This authority has been transferred from Christ to the apostles and their successors. Matt. 18:18 - the apostles are given authority to bind and loose. The authority to bind and loose includes administering and removing the temporal penalties due to sin. The Jews understood this since the birth of the Church. John 20:22-23; Matt. 18:18 - the power to remit/retain sin is also the power to remit/retain punishment due to sin. If Christ's ministers can forgive the eternal penalty of sin, they can certainly remit the temporal penalty of sin (which is called an "indulgence"). 2 Cor. 2:10 - Paul forgives in the presence of Christ (some translations refer to the presences of Christ as "in persona Christi"). Some say that this may also be a reference to sins. 2 Cor. 5:18 - the ministry of reconciliation was given to the ambassadors of the Church. This ministry of reconciliation refers to the sacrament of reconciliation, also called the sacrament of confession or penance. James 5:15-16 - in verse 15 we see that sins are forgiven by the priests in the sacrament of the sick. This is another example of man's authority to forgive sins on earth. Then in verse 16, James says “Therefore, confess our sins to one another,” in reference to the men referred to in verse 15, the priests of the Church. 1 Tim. 2:5 - Christ is the only mediator, but He was free to decide how His mediation would be applied to us. The Lord chose to use priests of God to carry out His work of forgiveness. Lev. 5:4-6; 19:21-22 - even under the Old Covenant, God used priests to forgive and atone for the sins of others. II. The Necessity and Practice of Orally Confessing Sins James 5:16 - James clearly teaches us that we must “confess our sins to one another,” not just privately to God. James 5:16 must be read in the context of James 5:14-15, which is referring to the healing power (both physical and spiritual) of the priests of the Church. Hence, when James says “therefore” in verse 16, he must be referring to the men he was writing about in verses 14 and 15 – these men are the ordained priests of the Church, to whom we must confess our sins. Acts 19:18 - many came to orally confess sins and divulge their sinful practices. Oral confession was the practice of the early Church just as it is today. Matt. 3:6; Mark 1:5 - again, this shows people confessing their sins before others as an historical practice (here to John the Baptist). 1 Tim. 6:12 - this verse also refers to the historical practice of confessing both faith and sins in the presence of many witnesses. 1 John 1:9 - if we confess are sins, God is faithful to us and forgives us and cleanse us. But we must confess our sins to one another. Num. 5:7 - this shows the historical practice of publicly confessing sins, and making public restitution. 2 Sam. 12:14 - even though the sin is forgiven, there is punishment due for the forgiven sin. David is forgiven but his child was still taken (the consequence of his sin). Neh. 9:2-3 - the Israelites stood before the assembly and confessed sins publicly and interceded for each other. Sir. 4:26 - God tells us not to be ashamed to confess our sins, and not to try to stop the current of a river. Anyone who has experienced the sacrament of reconciliation understands the import of this verse. Baruch 1:14 - again, this shows that the people made confession in the house of the Lord, before the assembly. 1 John 5:16-17; Luke 12:47-48 - there is a distinction between mortal and venial sins. This has been the teaching of the Catholic Church for 2,000 years, but, today, most Protestants no longer agree that there is such a distinction. Mortal sins lead to death and must be absolved in the sacrament of reconciliation. Venial sins do not have to be confessed to a priest, but the pious Catholic practice is to do so in order to advance in our journey to holiness. Matt. 5:19 - Jesus teaches that breaking the least of commandments is venial sin (the person is still saved but is least in the kingdom), versus mortal sin (the person is not saved).

Public Comments

  1. mmmm, I can just feel that brotherly love going round
  2. Is there a question somewhere in all that?
  3. I don't see a question. Putting a question mark at the end of your first statement doesn't make it a question.
  4. Simple answer. No.
  5. No but priests should not hold conversion.
  6. No, but Catholics need to delete the books they added to the Bible (Machabees, Tobias, Judith, Wisdom, Baruch,)
  7. Umm.. yeah, OK.. we're gonna need a meeting to decide how we're gonna go about ripping pages out of all the existing bibles. Maybe we can get 1 person in each town. Maybe 2 or 3 people for big cities like NewYork and London. ~ DUSTIN You're ignorant of history.. The 7 books you refer to were part of the canon of the holy bible and earlier versions used by ALL Christendom from approximately 148AD until 1500 when Martin Luther, with no authority took them out. It was the Protestants who DELETED them, NOT the Catholic church which added them. Catholic is the ONLY church upholds the history and teachings of Christ's Disciples. All other churches have changed the teachings of the disciples in some small way. Many Christian religions are labeled as "fundamentalists" because they stripped christianity back to the basics (fundamentals)
  8. Exactly which New Testament Passage above discusses priests? I must have missed that one. Here are a few notes for you: -A Christian Bishop should have a real family – 1 Tim. 3:2-5 -“Father” should never be used as a title for clergy – Matt. 23:9 -The word “pope” comes from “paps” (for “papa”) meaning “a nursing father” (Num. 11:12) -Pope denies the teachings of the Apostle Peter (Acts 15:11; 1 Peter. 2:5) -Peter would not let a man bow down to him - Acts 10:25-26 -Not once at any time has any pope publicly given anyone the material on New Testament salvation found in Romans ch. 4-5; Galatians ch. 3-4; Ephesians ch. 2, 5; Colossians 2; 1 Thessalonians 4; 2 Thessalonians 2; 1 John 5; Jude; 1 Peter 2; 2 Peter 2; or Revelation ch. 9-22. -Popes demonstrate constant disobedience to the NT orders given to all Christian ministers in 2 Timothy ch. 3-4; Titus ch. 1-2; 1 Timothy ch. 1-2; 1 Corinthians 9; and 2 Corinthians 10-12. -Paul was the apostle to the Gentiles (Rom. 11:13), Peter was the apostle to the Jews (Galatians 2:8). If Catholics were to recognize one apostle as their founder, biblically, it should be Paul whose ministry was directed to Gentiles, who wrote the epistle to the ROMANS, and who was actually in Rome. -Neither Jesus nor Paul had a permanent dwelling place. The Vatican Billions (Avro Manhattan, 1983) documents over $4,000,000,000 in income per year for the Roman Catholic Church. -Pope Pius XI prayed for world peace for 20 years before he made a concordant with Hitler -WWI & WWII were both started by Catholic Austrians (Franz Joseph and Adolph Hitler) who were in full political union with the Catholic Church -Benito Mussolini and Hitler were both confirmed Roman Catholics. Neither excommunicated before or after the Holocaust. -Others who remained in good standing with the Catholic Church were Joseph Goebbles, Hermann Goering, Heydrich the “Hangman,” Theodor Eike (SS, Dachau), Rudolph Hoess (Auschwitz), Joseph Kramer (Belsen-Belsen), Fanz Stangl (Treblinka), Heinrich Himmler (Gestapo), and Commadant Koch (Buchenwald). These genocidal professional murderers should have been dealt with (1 Tim. 1:2-; 5:20). -Catholicism is pagan idolatry where the 2nd commandment has been removed from the list of 10 commandments – Ex. 20:4 – in their printed version of the commandments - they split the 10th commandment into 2 to make up the difference. This is “corrupting the word of God” (2 Cor. 2:17) and “handling the word of God deceitfully” (2 Cor. 4:2) -Catholics have been murdering Bible-believing Christians for over 15 centuries (Lollards, Cathari, Albigenses, Waldenses, Lutherans, Euchites, Donatists, Hussites, Nestorians, Protestants, Arians, etc…) -The pope is the “idol shepherd” of Zechariah 11:17 -Until recently, Catholicism forbade the Bible to get into the hands of the people which directly disobeys the Apostle Peter in 1 Peter 2:2. -There are no competent catholic scholars whose works can compete with the works of Jamieson, Fausset, and Brown, Adam Clarke, C. I. Schofield, Clarence Larkin, Arthur W. Pink, Edward Hills, Dean Burgon, Prebendary Scrivener, Donald Waite, Cornelius STam, Arno Gaebelein, Dwight Pentecost, Erich Sauer, Ethelbert Bullinger, or Laurence Vance. -Simon Peter was Married - 1 Cor. 9:5; Matt. 8:14 -Peter had to be taught sound doctrine by Paul – Galatians 2 -The “Queen of Heaven” is not Mary, rather it is a pre-Mary pagan deity (Jeremiah 7:18; 44:17-19, 25) -“Vestries” and “Vestments” are not catholic terms, but are ancient pagan terms used to describe the place where orgies and blasphemies would take place in honor of Baal – 2 Kings 10:22 - and Ashtoreth (Judges 2:13) -Alexander Hislop (The Two Babylons) proved back in 1916 that the whole Catholic set up from Madonnas to “confessionals” and cardinals (and from popes and crosses to beads and candles) was of heathen origin, stemming from the worship of Nimrod, Tammuz, and Semiramis (Astarte, Ishtar, et al.). Egyptians and Babylonians had “trinities,” but one member of their “trinity” was a FEMALE. -Mary was a sinner who needed a Savior – Luke 1:47 -Mary was an unclean sinner who needed purification – Luke 2:22 (cf. Lev. 12:1-7) -Mary gave birth to at least SIX children after the birth of Christ who are all listed by name in Mark 6:3. None of them were Christ’s “cousins” as Catholics alibi. Ps. 69:8 says they were His “mother’s children.” -Jesus corrects and rebukes mariolotry in Luke 11:27-28 the same way a modern Baptist would -Jesus never refers to Mary as “mother” one time in the Scriptures. He either calls her “woman” (John 2:4; 19:26) or nothing at all. -No “early Christians” (Peter, James, John, Matthew, Thomas, Bartholomew, Paul, Silas, Barnabas et al.) ever gave Mary the time of day or consulted her for anything. -The last time Mary is mentioned in scriptures, she is in a prayer meeting (Acts 1:14) with 120 disciples. None of them honor her, none of them reverence her, none of them pray to her, and none of them celebrate the birthday of her Son; nor do they “hail Mary” long enough for her to hail back. -Mary being called “the mother of God” came about by “Leo the Great” blending Catholic tradition and pagan religion around the time of the Council of Chalcedon (A.D. 451) -No Bible Christian (Peter, James, Paul, etc…) ever recognized Mary as God’s mother. -“.... Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix." (catechism 969, from: http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/p123a9p6.htm#II) – this is sheer blasphemy against the Lord Jesus Christ – 1 John 2:2. 1 Tim. 2:5 -If this isn’t Mary worship, I don’t know what is: “In giving birth you kept your virginity; in your Dormition you did not leave the world, O Mother of God, but were joined to the source of Life. You conceived the living God and, by your prayers, will deliver our souls from death.” From catechism 966 -“before they came together” in Matt. 1:18 and “knew her not till she brought forth her first born son” in Matt. 1:25 are clear indications that Mary and Joseph consummated their marriage after the birth of Jesus. -In order for Mary to retain her virginity while married, she would have to do so against 1 Cor. 7:4-5 which would mean that she disobeyed both God and Joseph. -Every Christian is a priest – 1 Pet. 2:5, 9 – and every Christian has a High Priest – Hebrews 3:1 – and no catholic clergy member fits anywhere in the picture -Jesus never fooled with salt, holy water, rosary beads, prayers for the dead, novenas, or parishes a day in his life. Neither did any of the apostles. -It was Rome who killed babies (Matt. 2), murdered James (Acts 12), imprisoned Peter (Acts 12), cut off Paul’s head (2 Tim. 4), persecuted the Jews (Acts18:2), whipped and nailed Jesus to the cross (John 18-19), and then Lied about his resurrection (Matt. 28:12-15) – what would make anyone think that Rome was the place to go for God-honoring biblical truth? -The Roman priest class supposedly succeeds the Levitical priest class when 1) no such instruction is given in the New Testament, and 2) such a thing is specifically Negated in Hebrews 7 with Christ being the High priest forever after the order of Melchisidec, not Levi or Rome. -The drinking of blood is forbidden before the law (Gen 9:4), during the law (Leviticus 17:10-11), and after the law (Acts 15:29). There is no indication that Christ would institute the drinking of any liquid that supposedly turned into literal blood – everything in the Bible goes against that notion. David even sets the example by saying the he will not offer drink offerings of blood – Ps. 16:4 -Jesus Christ specifically said that His literal flesh and blood (if taken orally) would profit them nothing – John 6:54-55, 63. “For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink” – Romans 14:17
  9. Your post does nothing more than answer your own question. You asked this with an already preconceived answer, which negates it being a question. But, I'm not one of those to report such postings. To report and ban questions or people is childish. Just wanted to state that you are not as clever as you think.
  10. Once again, you lie. Here are the REAL verses: John 21Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. 22And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: 23Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained. And this goes to all, for didn't Jesus say "and forgive us our sins as WE forgive those who sin against us" So please stop, you're adding and taking away from the bible. :)
  11. I just looked at the John 20 verses. Nowhere is there anything about priests absolving sin. This is simply Jesus empowering His followers with the Holy Spirit. All believers possess the Holy Spirit. I'll stand on I Timothy 2:5, with the plain language (absent your interpretation, thanks). I notice you buried it in your rant.
  12. You answered your own question. Have read any responses by people to refute your argument.
  13. GOOD GRIEF ! What version of the Bible are YOU using? None of John's and Matthew's verses that you cite are even close to being correctly quoted.
  14. True Holy Spirit filled Christians, are anointed by Christ Jesus to hold both the divine office of both king and priest..They are to judge those in the body of Christ and will judge during the 1000 year reign of Christ on this earth..Their authority and power is given to them by Christ to execute the will of God on this earth, and to destroy the works of the Devil and of His kingdom. Believers who come to Christ are anointed and have the rights to the power and authority of His Kingdom but those who claim to be a king or a priest without Christ's anointing and Holy Spirit within them are only deceived and have not the right to hold either office..Many within the Catholic Church are not anointed and are defiled before God..Their teachings of Christ are not correct and they also are in falsehood..Jesus told Peter, "Upon THIS ROCK, meaning Himself, would Christ build His Church..Not upon Peter, to which they believe..The Pope is herald as a god, when in fact, if he himself hasn't been born of God's Holy Spirit will also face the Judgment of God..Also, The Catholic Church does not teach that One needs to be rebirth by the Holy Spirit of God, so, if they are not Born Again, they too die in their sins and no prayers can be made after they die..
  15. the last verse in Revelations warns about "adding to or removing from the Word of God"
  16. There are two major problems with your argument. 1) Jesus is High Priest, Prophet and King. He is also God. God can forgive sins since they are against God. 2) There is no Biblical authority for priests today. Priests, under the Old Testament (or old covenant) were to go between man and God. Prophets were to go to man on God's behalf. A King ruled men under the submission to God. Also, this book Baruch, not in the Bible. Maybe the Catholic bible, but not the Bible.
  17. “John 20:21 - before He grants them the authority to forgive sins, Jesus says to the apostles, "as the Father sent me, so I send you." As Christ was sent by the Father to forgive sins, so Christ sends the apostles and their successors forgive sins.” Doesn’t say anything about forgiving sins. “John 20:22 - the Lord "breathes" on the apostles, and then gives them the power to forgive and retain sins. The only other moment in Scripture where God breathes on man is in Gen. 2:7, when the Lord "breathes" divine life into man. When this happens, a significant transformation takes place.” This verse speaks of Him imparting upon them the Holy Spirit not forgiveness of sins. "John 20:23 - Jesus says, "If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven. If you retain the sins of any, they are retained." In order for the apostles to exercise this gift of forgiving sins, the penitents must orally confess their sins to them because the apostles are not mind readers. The text makes this very clear. " If you look at verse 19 you will find that those who were present with Jesus disciples not just the Apostles. The disciples of Jesus have always been (even the the Roman Catholic Church) representative of the entire Church not just clergy. This verse says absolutely nothing about “orally” confessing sins. "Matt. 9:8 - this verse shows that God has given the authority to forgive sins to "men." Hence, those Protestants who acknowledge that the apostles had the authority to forgive sins (which this verse demonstrates) must prove that this gift ended with the apostles. Otherwise, the apostles' successors still possess this gift. Where in Scripture is the gift of authority to forgive sins taken away from the apostles or their successors? " Read verse 9:6 It was Jesus that had the authority to forgive sins. This makes sense since Jesus is God. Neither 9:6 nor 9:8 say that any other man has been given this authority. "Matt. 9:6; Mark 2:10 - Christ forgave sins as a man (not God) to convince us that the "Son of man" has authority to forgive sins on earth. " Actually even your Church teaches that Jesus nature can not be divided. There was not a “man” Jesus and a “God” Jesus there was simply Jesus.” (It's called the hypostatic union look it up) These verses again say nothing about Jesus giving any authority to any other man to forgive sins. "Luke 5:24 - Luke also points out that Jesus' authority to forgive sins is as a man, not God. The Gospel writers record this to convince us that God has given this authority to men." "This authority has been transferred from Christ to the apostles and their successors. " See above; Again this says nothing about any other man forgiving any sin. It certainly doesn’t say anything about Apostolic Succession. "Matt. 18:18 - the apostles are given authority to bind and loose. The authority to bind and loose includes administering and removing the temporal penalties due to sin. The Jews understood this since the birth of the Church." Please read a little ahead of this, It is the “Entire” Church that is called upon to bind or loose not individuals. If this were so Jesus would have said take the matter to an Apostle not “unto the Church” as He did. This doesn’t apply to the Apostles but to the Church. I would also add that there were early Church Fathers who believed that this applied to the Church not to the Apostles. "John 20:22-23; Matt. 18:18 - the power to remit/retain sin is also the power to remit/retain punishment due to sin. If Christ's ministers can forgive the eternal penalty of sin, they can certainly remit the temporal penalty of sin (which is called an "indulgence"). Again Disciples not Apostles signifying the whole Church. "2 Cor. 2:10 - Paul forgives in the presence of Christ (some translations refer to the presences of Christ as "in persona Christi"). Some say that this may also be a reference to sins. " So Paul was forgiving, so is my mother. That doesn’t lead to an understanding that Paul had authority to forgive in the place of God. My son had sharp words with me the other day, I forgave him as would Christ, does that mean I have authority of God to forgive sins? "2 Cor. 5:18 - the ministry of reconciliation was given to the ambassadors of the Church. This ministry of reconciliation refers to the sacrament of reconciliation, also called the sacrament of confession or penance. " The ministry of Reconciliation is wrought through Christ. This verse says nothing about the Apostles being given any authority to forgive sins. It is through faith in Jesus Sacrifice that we are forgiven. "James 5:15-16 - in verse 15 we see that sins are forgiven by the priests in the sacrament of the sick. This is another example of man's authority to forgive sins on earth. Then in verse 16, James says “Therefore, confess our sins to one another,” in reference to the men referred to in verse 15, the priests of the Church. " Read verse 15 again; It is the prayer of faith that saves the sick it is because of the prayer of faith that his sins are forgiven. That prayer comes from the sick after he is anointed. "1 Tim. 2:5 - Christ is the only mediator, but He was free to decide how His mediation would be applied to us. The Lord chose to use priests of God to carry out His work of forgiveness." Where in this verse does it say that Jesus chose to use priests to carry out forgiveness? Here’s a hint it doesn’t. "Lev. 5:4-6; 19:21-22 - even under the Old Covenant, God used priests to forgive and atone for the sins of others. " The atonement came through and because of the Sacrifice not the priest. Does not the Scriptures say that without the shedding of blood there is no remittance of sin? I know a lot of great priests, none have yet shed any blood for me. Not enough room to keep going like this, I know the Scriptures pretty well I don't think you are going to find any Scripture in which the Apostles are given authority to forgive sins for God. You are adding to Scripture to try to defend an unscriptural practice. There are severe warnings in Scripture about adding to Scripture. I would heed them if I were you.
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